[jamesadams]

I posted the below on the NAGCA site before finding this more specific forum. I'm wondering if I'm the only person with such great luck or if this is the start of a trend. I saw nothing online but due to the parts being on back order it stands to reason that there's a chance I'm not alone here. Anyway, on with the (still ongoing) show

Short question: Has anyone else experienced a broken injector for the DEF system?

Back story if interested:

While traveling in our shiny new Grand Cherokee diesel, I got a message on the console stating that there was a malfunction with the Diesel Exhaust System (it isn't due to lack of AdBlue) and the vehicle would not start after 200 miles. I'm 500 miles away from home. I got it to a dealer with 130 miles left and after taking a look they found that the DEF injector was broken and needed to be replaced. To make things worse, the part is on back order and the most likely scenario at the time was that we would have to wait a solid week before the part would be delivered. We hoped for the best case scenario of two days but unfortunately that didn't happen. The local dealership (spoke to Greg in service at Jeep of Greer,SC) has been outstandingly nice and have been keeping us informed of the situation and have been extremely apologetic even though none of this is their fault. Personally, I blame the EPA and their ridiculous mandate that new diesels be equipped with such an unnecessary vehicle disabling "feature" more than anyone else.

I'll update this after I receive some resolution on the matter through Chrysler. Any smart people out there who could offer advice on how to disable this system would be greatly appreciated.


*** UPDATE 1 ***
I've been stuck here for a full week now. Apparently two parts were supposed to arrive to resolve the issue. The "injector nozzle" and a tube. The injector came but the tube did not. Like every other day, the service department told me it *should* be here tomorrow (Tuesday, April 29th) and the actual repair would be quick.

The Jeep representative (Cynthia) finally called me back to discuss the current situation and what Jeep could do to make it right. She didn't seem to be concerned about my current situation in the least. She basically said that Jeep would probably cover some of the rental but anything else was unlikely. I'm actually a little irritated at this point as I've been stuck in this hotel and having to drive this Explorer. Now I'm wondering if I can find a way to give this vehicle back. Now heading out the door to look at the Porsche Macan. If it's diesel version (not out just yet) doesn't arbitrarily prevent me from using the vehicle then this Grand Cherokee will have been my 4th and final Jeep. More updates to come; hopefully next time from my house and not this hotel
Update 1.1: * I'm an idiot; the Macan isn't even out yet and no one at the dealership could provide details on whether the automated disabling "feature" would be making an appearance in the Macon diesel.

 

[MDBones]

I have heard this problem reported by a few other people. I wouldn't call it a frequent one but it's happened enough that I've become aware of it.

It sucks being stuck like that and I sure hope Jeep finds a way to make that up to you for the delay in getting the parts. They should be covering the entire cost of your rental for starters.

 

[jamesadams]

@MDBones, thank you for letting me know my issue is not in isolation. I hope for the others it has happened in less inconvenient fashion. After 2 phone calls, the representative decided they could cover most of the rental which leads me to:

Update 2:
The final necessary part did come in, yay! It took a couple of hours to install and the person I had been dealing with went to lunch without handing the situation off to any of the other service managers which left me sitting for a bit and anxious to be on the road. I was a little irritated but a man's gotta eat and they were all so friendly at the dealership it was easier to nicely thank them for their hard work since they were part of the solution not the problem.

The representative (Cynthia) said she would follow up this morning to see if things went as planned and to continue our conversation on compensation. She never called but we made it home and finally had a good nights sleep. I called her around noon and left a message for her to call me back. She finally did, and seemed a bit surprised that I still felt the need to talk to her. This was the second conversation with her and there wasn't even a hint of an apologetic note in her voice or the words she used to tell me that Jeep would reimburse me for most of my rental but that was all. She didn't care that I spent an additional week in a hotel, used an entire week of my personal vacation time, or any of the other expenses I incurred as a result of their negligence. I asked her how she would feel if the vehicle she was driving could at any moment inform her that it will no longer be operational after 200 miles. She admitted that it would make her nervous to drive the vehicle, but reminded me that Jeep shouldn't be held accountable for theoretical situations. Of course I reminded her that it wasn't theoretical but did in fact happen and is the very reason I was speaking to her! I told her I was going to need to speak to someone else and she said she'd try to have her supervisor call me within 24 hours. I feel that it's safe to say I might receive a full reimbursement for the rental, but my lodging will likely not be covered and I don't think I'll get so much as an apology for the amount of time that was wasted. And worse yet, I can't talk to the software developers to beg them to change the "won't start in 200 miles" to something like "won't start in a month". So far no one has been able to verify that the 200 mile cut-off is a verbatim EPA edict.

I swear, I want to like this vehicle so much! It's a shame that I'd rather drive my Cheyenne, which has well over 100k miles on it, for long distances than this Jeep Grand Cherokee ecoDiesel that only has about 4k miles. That Porsche might be expensive to repair but not nearly as expensive as the JGC when all things are considered (that statement contains a balance of emotion and observation). And the reps there don't treat me like garbage. For the record now, I've never had a major malfunction on any of my 3 previous Jeeps.

 

[EricM]

The "won't start after XXX miles" isn't an EPA edict. The EPA simply mandates some form of system that discourages owners from disregarding the DEF system. On my Duramax, the system simply restricts maximum vehicle speed to 55 mph after you've ignored the warning for a certain period of time (I forget exactly what it is). If you continue to ignore the warnings during the 55 mph window, the speed is further restricted to something like 15 mph. I read somewhere that you can reset the GM system by disconnecting the batteries then turning the key to run to zap any residual power. Supposedly this restarts the entire countdown/restriction process and gives you a way to limp home if you needed to. I'm not sure if the Jeep works the same way or if the condition gets stored in NVRAM somewhere. I venture to guess that Chrysler will change their system after the first lawsuit where an owner was in an emergency situation and the vehicle didn't start.

 

[jamesadams]

Thanks for the clarification EricM.

I think I strongly prefer the Duramax's method of enforcing the EPA's mandate. Obviously I won't be driving this vehicle on any more long trips (until someone produces a good way to remove the system), but when this happens again I'll try the battery disconnect trick. I wish I thought about trying that before, who knows! Since Jeep has basically told me to go pound sand and have only committed to covering part of the rental, I think I will unfortunately be the first lawsuit although my situation doesn't carry the same weight as a life/death emergency would.

Update 3:
It's three days since Cynthia told me to expect a call from her supervisor within 24 hours and still nothing. I'm in the fortunate position of knowing a few attorneys so at least I won't have to spend too much money to have good representation if this trend continues but I would really love for Jeep to make this right on their own volition. I don't want to waste more time on this, but everything about this situation is unacceptable to me and I feel overly compelled to fight this! I'll post my concerns on Twitter, try calling one more time, and then I'll talk to an attorney and see if I have any realistic options. I'm open to ideas from the community though, I really despise unnecessary litigation.

 

[MDBones]

That seems to be a typical practice with a lot of big businesses today. They think they can do whatever they want and feel they have little to no obligation to stand up for the failure of their products or making things right with their customers. Statistics are in their favor as most consumers don't have the time or desire to take an issue to court. And even on the occasions when a consumer does, their attorneys use every delaying tactic in the book to make sure it's as dragged out and painful of a process as possible.

 

[EricM]

The squeaky wheel still gets the oil so stay on them. Cyberspace makes it easy for your squeaks to be heard more broadly too. Most manufacturers now have customer service staff monitoring forums to address customer feedback before it gets out of control and scares off prospective customers (like me). Post your story on other Jeep/Chrysler forums as well as general automotive sites like Edmunds. You can even post a user review on Consumer Reports. I've heard that Twitter works quite well at getting response too.

I'll be continuing to watch this space closely as I plan to order a new vehicle this fall. I don't want to buy something that is going to be troublesome or that the manufacturer won't stand behind. I'm watching the Toyota forums closely too as a 4Runner Trail Premium is my second choice if I don't go with a GC diesel.

 

[Casper]

I crawled under my JGC today to see if I could see what the connection looked like. And my assessment is that where the DEF line connects to the exhaust is very much exposed to road hazards and appears to be fragile. I don't know if the the off road package protects this area ( I don't have it) but considering heat from regen I'm thinking not. I live in a fairly affluent area where people can afford 40 to 60 k for a vehicle..... but still last time I talked to my dealer I had one of three sold by them. I don't see why a dealer in rural Arkansas ( where Murphy says you will break down at 3 in the morning on a long weekend ) would stock parts for a vehicle they have only read about and have no trained technicians for. So I'm going to put some radiator tape and a couple of clamps in my emergency kit. And thank you for the heads up. Good news is if there is a problem it's real easy to get too... Although I'm sure the tape probably won't do much good...

 

[M5040]

Maybe you could entice your lawyer with a class action suite. It sounds like there will be more to follow.

 

[This 1's my wifes!!]

My wifes JGC had the same message on her display last Friday. The day before we had just had the vehicle in at the dealership because of a "DEF see dealer" message. The dealer filled the DEF and updated the computer.
So anyways Friday rolls around shes out running errands and the "200 miles and the vehicle won't start" message pops up. We immediately dropped it off at the dealership. When we picked it up on this past Tuesday they found nothing wrong with the vehicle. They said the DEF system is new to everyone and that they couldn't find any CEL's or messages from the computer.

 

[EricM]

Well it doesn't look like there are going to be any improvements to this system for 2015 so I went ahead and bought something else (2014 ML350 Bluetec). Hopefully someone from Chrysler will see this and recognize that they lost a sale by not stepping up and addressing this issue.

For those considering a diesel ML (which surprisingly was only a few thousand $ more than the Jeep with the deals that are out there) and want the V6, you'll need to move quickly as 2014 is the last year for the V6 diesel ML; 2015 will use a 4 cylinder twin-turbo diesel and be called ML250 Bluetec.

 

[jfecteau20]

I had the same problem above mentionned: a broken injector. I was in Québec North Shore; Havre Saint Pierre more exactly. The message was in kilometer 300 km to drive. I managed to reach the Jeep Dealer in Sept Iles. Same story: Back order for 7 days. Hopefully: Sept Iles Jeep dealer picked-up a spare part on his diesel demo and I returned with no problem to Québec City. I have all the protection plates offer in option on my Overland. Last winter, I was in Del Rio and I have a DEF problem related to the DED hose. The dealer replaced the hose: apparently I was the second.
I pulling a 4000 pounds trailer and I drive 28000km ( 17000 miles) to date. Except the DEF no problem and I am very please with the Engine, the torque and the economic. I am looking to make a home protection for the injector and the fluid hose if JEEP do not take action.

Sorry for the grammatical error: I am not perfert writer in English

 

[jfecteau20]

I had the same problem above mentionned: a broken injector. I was in Québec North Shore; Havre Saint Pierre more exactly. The message was in kilometer 300 km to drive. I managed to reach the Jeep Dealer in Sept Iles. Same story: Back order for 7 days. Hopefully: Sept Iles Jeep dealer picked-up a spare part on his diesel demo and I returned with no problem to Québec City. I have all the protection plates offer in option on my Overland. Last winter, I was in Del Rio and I have a DEF problem related to the DED hose. The dealer replaced the hose: apparently I was the second.
I pulling a 4000 pounds trailer and I drive 28000km ( 17000 miles) to date. Except the DEF no problem and I am very please with the Engine, the torque and the economic. I am looking to make a home protection for the injector and the fluid hose if JEEP do not take action.

Sorry for the grammatical error: I am not perfert writer in English

 

[jfecteau20]

I had the same problem above mentionned: a broken injector. I was in Québec North Shore; Havre Saint Pierre more exactly. The message was in kilometer 300 km to drive. I managed to reach the Jeep Dealer in Sept Iles. Same story: Back order for 7 days. Hopefully: Sept Iles Jeep dealer picked-up a spare part on his diesel demo and I returned with no problem to Québec City. I have all the protection plates offer in option on my Overland. Last winter, I was in Del Rio and I have a DEF problem related to the DED hose. The dealer replaced the hose: apparently I was the second.
I pulling a 4000 pounds trailer and I drive 28000km ( 17000 miles) to date. Except the DEF no problem and I am very please with the Engine, the torque and the economic. I am looking to make a home protection for the injector and the fluid hose if JEEP do not take action.

Sorry for the grammatical error: I am not perfert writer in English

 

[bigjohn]

I posted the below on the NAGCA site before finding this more specific forum. I'm wondering if I'm the only person with such great luck or if this is the start of a trend. I saw nothing online but due to the parts being on back order it stands to reason that there's a chance I'm not alone here. Anyway, on with the (still ongoing) show

Short question: Has anyone else experienced a broken injector for the DEF system?

Back story if interested:

While traveling in our shiny new Grand Cherokee diesel, I got a message on the console stating that there was a malfunction with the Diesel Exhaust System (it isn't due to lack of AdBlue) and the vehicle would not start after 200 miles. I'm 500 miles away from home. I got it to a dealer with 130 miles left and after taking a look they found that the DEF injector was broken and needed to be replaced. To make things worse, the part is on back order and the most likely scenario at the time was that we would have to wait a solid week before the part would be delivered. We hoped for the best case scenario of two days but unfortunately that didn't happen. The local dealership (spoke to Greg in service at Jeep of Greer,SC) has been outstandingly nice and have been keeping us informed of the situation and have been extremely apologetic even though none of this is their fault. Personally, I blame the EPA and their ridiculous mandate that new diesels be equipped with such an unnecessary vehicle disabling "feature" more than anyone else.

I'll update this after I receive some resolution on the matter through Chrysler. Any smart people out there who could offer advice on how to disable this system would be greatly appreciated.


*** UPDATE 1 ***
I've been stuck here for a full week now. Apparently two parts were supposed to arrive to resolve the issue. The "injector nozzle" and a tube. The injector came but the tube did not. Like every other day, the service department told me it *should* be here tomorrow (Tuesday, April 29th) and the actual repair would be quick.

The Jeep representative (Cynthia) finally called me back to discuss the current situation and what Jeep could do to make it right. She didn't seem to be concerned about my current situation in the least. She basically said that Jeep would probably cover some of the rental but anything else was unlikely. I'm actually a little irritated at this point as I've been stuck in this hotel and having to drive this Explorer. Now I'm wondering if I can find a way to give this vehicle back. Now heading out the door to look at the Porsche Macan. If it's diesel version (not out just yet) doesn't arbitrarily prevent me from using the vehicle then this Grand Cherokee will have been my 4th and final Jeep. More updates to come; hopefully next time from my house and not this hotel
Update 1.1: * I'm an idiot; the Macan isn't even out yet and no one at the dealership could provide details on whether the automated disabling "feature" would be making an appearance in the Macon diesel.

 

[bigjohn]

I have had the same problem as Jamesadams above. They replaced my injector after waiting two weeks on the part. Now the DEF tank is clogged two weeks later and my check engine light is back on. The dealer says I need a new DEF tank, but that they aren't making anymore and that the part is not available. This is unbelievable. I will file suit against Jeep if this isn't resolved soon. How can the tank not be available? It is a 2014, they have been out since October. I guess they have redesigned it on the 2015 because the part number is different according to my dealer. So, I am waiting to hear the verdict. This certainly must fall under the lemon law. I am nuclear pissed. I am sure many others are or will experience this problem.

 

[redringlet1]

We've had our check engine light on.....4 times now I think? The latest round of service time we had the DEF injector replaced (like others, over a week to get the part). It's been a couple weeks since the repairs. My husband just went to top off the DEF and low and behold - it all poured out onto our garage floor. Apparently they returned it to us with a hose disconnected or something has cracked. Oddly enough, for this problem, the CEL did not come on which is ironic since it seems very prone to coming on and telling us that we can only drive 200 more miles. I'm surprised that the exhaust system wouldn't be pressure sensitive at all. Or perhaps they just disabled the CEL for the exhaust system so we'd stop coming back, lol. Back to the dealer we go! I've lost count of how many times now.

 

[CKBDR]

Having similar issues with the DEF system (DEF Injector specifically) as others have posted. Our situation was when the 'Service DEF' message came on it was, maybe coincidently, right about the same time the DEF fluid level was getting low (around 20%). We filled the DEF tank in hopes that the message would clear but it did not. We were out of town when this happened and fortunately made it to our local dealer where we purchased the vehicle with approximately 70 miles remaining. It has been there since (nearly 3 weeks as of this post) with the dealer saying there is no delivery date available from their supplier (Bosch) for the DEF Injector. Not being able to get even an estimated delivery date is unbelievable to me; I've supplied to the automotive market for nearly 30 years and cannot get away with telling my customers I don't even have an estimated date. You would think that Chrysler/Fiat has enough leverage to get this information or by now come clean on this that they have a significant problem and be upfront with their customers. Spending the kind of money we did on this vehicle and then get these answers is very disappointing. The vehicle itself we really like but this incident has really been frustrating as I'm sure it is for everyone else.

 

[ExcursionDiesel]

There is nothing short of a massive hole that would render the DEF tank unrepairable. If it's clogged with DEF chrystals, wash them out. They disolve in water. The dealers diagnosis is rediculous. My DEF tank was drained and cleaned out by my dealer.