I've had my 2014 in 4 times on check engine light. Showing exhaust system codes. They went through entire DEF system and finally found crystals in or near DEF injector. Replaced injector. Only made it 40 miles before Ck engine is back on. Headed back to dealer this week. Started all this at maybe 3000 miles. 7400 miles now. Thoughts? Others experiencing this?
RobbWood
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The presence of a CEL doesn't necessarily prevent a regen. I've seen mine regen with an active P20EE code and the CEL on. If a sensor or device used in the regen process fails, that may prevent a regen. DEF is unrelated to DPF. They are separate processes.
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I have a Scanguage2 guage that displays EGT, DPF, and CAT temperatures. The DPF temperature climbs to 1200°F during a regen. The Scanguage2 also reads and resets engine codes. It is mounted in my cubby under the radio. Regen attempts will occur in city driving and, if you are careful to keep RPMs at 1500-1800, it is possible to complete a regen anywhere. This means paddle shifting and dropping to neutral at stop lights. The turbo makes the motor want to rev so its no easy task. I learned to do it out of curiosity and thought it would be handy in a pinch.
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Speed, I think...but it can be kept in regen once initiated.
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Ok. To help us get a better understanding of the DEF system, here's something I posted on the other Jeep site in the WK2 Diesel forum:
Chrysler doesn't know what they are doing. That's the problem. Chrysler doesn't have a team dedicated to assisting on this issue and dealer techs are struggling to fix the issue. After a tech has had some experience with the DEF system, it may be easier for them to diagnose.
Here are the components and problems as I understand:
1. DEF tank - contamination, bad DEF, clogged outfeed
2. DEF pump - failed or low pressure
3. DEF line to injector - kinked or damaged, clogged
4. DEF injector - failed, clogged
5. Catalytic Converter - ?
6. NOx sensor - failed, improper reading
I believe there is no clear published diagnostic procedure for troubleshooting so the techs are guessing. Honestly, its not that complicated. Its a closed loop system. Some simple test can isolate the issue to one or more of the above components.
Chrysler doesn't know what they are doing. That's the problem. Chrysler doesn't have a team dedicated to assisting on this issue and dealer techs are struggling to fix the issue. After a tech has had some experience with the DEF system, it may be easier for them to diagnose.
Here are the components and problems as I understand:
1. DEF tank - contamination, bad DEF, clogged outfeed
2. DEF pump - failed or low pressure
3. DEF line to injector - kinked or damaged, clogged
4. DEF injector - failed, clogged
5. Catalytic Converter - ?
6. NOx sensor - failed, improper reading
I believe there is no clear published diagnostic procedure for troubleshooting so the techs are guessing. Honestly, its not that complicated. Its a closed loop system. Some simple test can isolate the issue to one or more of the above components.
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Here are the components and problems as I understand:
1. DEF tank - contamination, bad DEF, clogged outfeed
2. DEF pump - failed or low pressure
3. DEF line to injector - kinked or damaged, clogged
4. DEF injector - failed, clogged
5. Catalytic Converter - ?
6. NOx sensor - failed, improper reading
OK. I'm diagnosed! #2 and #4 are my issues.
The service manage just showed me my DEF Injector and it was 100% plugged (packed full) with DEF crystals that looked like powdered laundry detergent that got moist and caked up and then dried hard. My theory was correct that the DEF pump failed and the low DEF flow allowed the injector to get caked and plugged up with DEF crystals. It is possible that the injector plugged first and killed the pump...either way, the issue has been found! DEF dissolves the crystals in a functioning system. If it ever fails to flow under pressure, the injector may get plugged.
My dealer actually has a new injector in stock and I already got a new pump so I'll be fixed soon. I suspect they could have soaked the old injector in DEF or water and it would clean up. I want to know if its easy to remove in case it happens again, so I can pull it off and wash it out myself.
1. DEF tank - contamination, bad DEF, clogged outfeed
2. DEF pump - failed or low pressure
3. DEF line to injector - kinked or damaged, clogged
4. DEF injector - failed, clogged
5. Catalytic Converter - ?
6. NOx sensor - failed, improper reading
OK. I'm diagnosed! #2 and #4 are my issues.
The service manage just showed me my DEF Injector and it was 100% plugged (packed full) with DEF crystals that looked like powdered laundry detergent that got moist and caked up and then dried hard. My theory was correct that the DEF pump failed and the low DEF flow allowed the injector to get caked and plugged up with DEF crystals. It is possible that the injector plugged first and killed the pump...either way, the issue has been found! DEF dissolves the crystals in a functioning system. If it ever fails to flow under pressure, the injector may get plugged.
My dealer actually has a new injector in stock and I already got a new pump so I'll be fixed soon. I suspect they could have soaked the old injector in DEF or water and it would clean up. I want to know if its easy to remove in case it happens again, so I can pull it off and wash it out myself.
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This is common cause of the P20EE code that sets the Check engine Light and ultimately disables the vehicle. I was told that the mileage countdown to no restart has been changed in a recent TSB but can't confirm it.
Attachments
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P20EE came back after 90 miles. I'll post when I know more tomorrow.
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Mine would run 170 miles before the P20EE code would set the CEL after each repair attempt. I am getting mine back this week also. Hope it's fixe this time.
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Update: Mine was fixed with a Catilytic Converter replacement. They also replaced a bad DEF pump.and DEF injector that was clogged with DEF chrystals, and drained/cleaned the DEF tank and lines.
I've driven 1000 miles error free so I think I am out.of the woods on this issue.
I've driven 1000 miles error free so I think I am out.of the woods on this issue.
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Guys, get a code reader. If you are getting a P20EE intermitantly, you most likely have a Catalytic Converter that is operating marginally. It will clear after a few drive cycles then return since it is barely passing the onboard diagnostic test which occur as you drive.
This is a documented issue. Jeep is aware of it.
This is a documented issue. Jeep is aware of it.
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Are you guys with failed Catalytic Converters washing your Jeep' s underside with a high pressure sprayer or spraying water down the tailpipe while the tailpipe is hot? Look at the factory duels from behind and tell me where water will go if it enters the tailpipe. The pipes angle down to the Cat. If your vehicle was regening or just finished before you washed it, sudden quenching of the ceramic honeycomb structure which is still at 1200°F inside the Cat can cause it to crack. Go do some reading before you tell me otherwise. Thermal stress is one of the top reasons a Cat can fail prematurely.
There has to be a reason our Catalytic Converters are dying at this rate.
There has to be a reason our Catalytic Converters are dying at this rate.
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Listed as one of the top reasons for failure:
http://catalyticconverter.org/failure/index.htm
Goggle search...plenty to read:
https://www.google.com/search?q=the...9i57.18250j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&espv=1&ie=UTF-8
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ELM327 Bluetooth to OBD2 adapter with the Torque app on Android. $30 total.
Also, I have a Scanguage2 which is a configurable multiguage that also reads/resets codes. $150
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FYI...A new TSB was released today that addresses emissions related issues...specifically the P20EE and related codes associated with the SCR/DEF system. It is listed as a Rapid Response TSB and should be performed on ALL 2014 GC diesels.
Here's a copy of the TSB:
http://www.wk2jeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wk2_1801814d.pdf
Here's a copy of the TSB:
http://www.wk2jeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wk2_1801814d.pdf
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The new TSB corrects algorithms in the ECM related to emissions but...it doesn't "fix" a bad Catalytic Converter. I suspect the prior algorithm actual damages the Cat. Mine had to be replaced.
In gas engines, a poorly tuned fuel system due to a failed sensor can kill a Catalytic Converter. Its the #1 cause of cat failure. I suspect our diesels are somewhat the same. Too much EGR, overly rich conditions during regen, incorrect DEF dosage...could cause failure and I suspect they have made adjustments in the latest TSB.
I would advise getting the TSB as soon as possible.
In gas engines, a poorly tuned fuel system due to a failed sensor can kill a Catalytic Converter. Its the #1 cause of cat failure. I suspect our diesels are somewhat the same. Too much EGR, overly rich conditions during regen, incorrect DEF dosage...could cause failure and I suspect they have made adjustments in the latest TSB.
I would advise getting the TSB as soon as possible.
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That code pertains to a bad NOx sensor. Have they changed the sensor yet? I suspect they were told to try the TSB first before swapping NOx sensors.
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You must report a symptom that a TSB addresses to have it applied unless it is classified as an RRT. Then it is required. Some dealers will provide the reason for you and apply all TSBs just to keep you updated and generate billable shop time. I consider those techs as the good guys.
The latest ECM TSB is emissions related and an "RRT" which means ALL diesels get it. They should have applied it since it was in the shop. Maybe they misread the bulletin.
The latest ECM TSB is emissions related and an "RRT" which means ALL diesels get it. They should have applied it since it was in the shop. Maybe they misread the bulletin.
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Frank, sounds like your dealer knows their stuff. The DEF flow test is the right diagnostic and I am impressed that they communicated the results to you.
Let us know if you notice any changes in operation with all the updates. I've had all of them except the latest ECM rev D emmisions update that was just released. You may notice your shift points have changed based on torque demand. Mine downshifts sooner instead of holding a higher gear when I accelerate. Some like it, some don't.
Let us know if you notice any changes in operation with all the updates. I've had all of them except the latest ECM rev D emmisions update that was just released. You may notice your shift points have changed based on torque demand. Mine downshifts sooner instead of holding a higher gear when I accelerate. Some like it, some don't.
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You can drive past 0 on the countdown, you just can't restart. Might want to make your next trip a dealer visit.
They haven't solved the DEF issue yet. Have them perform a flow test. If it flows DEF through the injector to spec, you may have a bad sensor. Otherwise, if it's flowing to spec, you should be ok.
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